User:Apollo/Talk:Family Life

Flansy's Parents are Cute

I saw Earl and Polly at one of the 2002-08-17 shows in Boston. They were both beaming. Also, Polly was totally That Guy. --Self Called Nowhere 22:27, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

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I'm fairly sure that Plaxus was at the 2008-03-28 show in Somerville. I saw someone who looked strikingly like him at several times during the show, and he gestured several times to the band just before they came on.

Songs About Paxy

There has been some speculation that Counterfeit Faker is about Paxus... should we put that in the article? 75.158.40.131 15:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

"John Linnell's Step-Mom"

While talking momentarily about having to re-learn a song for a show in a recent interview, John Flansburgh indifferently mentions that John Linnell has a step mother. ("As John Linnell's step-mom says, 'It's not what you learned, it's how many times you've learned it.'") ~ magbatz 23:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

"Thinking about Thinking about 'Thinking about Thinking'"

John's father is Dr. Zenos M. Linnell, a former psychiatrist licensed in NY and MA. According to the Boston University website, he is a 1953 graduate of their med school, and a donor to BU in 2005-2006. He has published several articles on child cognitive development - "Thinking about 'Thinking about Thinking'" and the quite recursive "Thinking about Thinking about 'Thinking about Thinking'."

Shouldn't we put something about the possible connection to the lines:

Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part/ That wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of

From Where Your Eyes Don't Go? --Tmbgguy 16:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

It seems like Linnell writes a lot of psychological stuff, actually. If you can think of anywhere relevant to note Dr. Linnell his father's (probable) influence on his lyricism I'd say it's interesting enough to be on the wiki (maybe here?). (yaaay, metacognition) -Apollo. 19:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Add it. It fits. --Sparkling_Omelets 17:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

"Don't forget step sisters Leslie and Karen from Lincoln Mass!!"

Elaboration, please? -Apollo 01:14, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
addendum: I don't think that the grammar/formality is quite up to encyclopedic knowledge basic standards, in any case.

What I was GONNA say before edit conflict:

I agree with you completely. -- Buzzmusic100 ("Keep your voice down...")

Yeah, what's going on with that one random line? I came across it today. Do we even have evidence of the stepsisters and other siblings? Any ideas on what we could do to this? --Lemita 14:38, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Second photo with Polly Flansburgh....

I knew Kathleen Linnell and that is NO Kathleen Linnell.

John Flansburgh's Family Life

From the article where he's mentioning music videos: "This track is a cover of a Joe Meek song from the ’60s, and sung here by my good friend Robin “Goldie” Goldwasser. I put together this video as a way to teach myself editing on iMovie." ...                                       .......................................................................

Relationship Quality Evaluations

Am I the only person made uncomfortable by the mention of how "meaningful" Flansburgh's relationship is with his parents and the speculation that "he doesn't seem to have the best relationship" with his brother? I feel like this is totally inappropriate content for a fan page. It's certainly fine to mention anything he has said about his family members, but drawing conclusions like this seems disrespectful and rude. --Stormer 14:49, 26 October 2011 (EDT)

No kids

I'm curious why Flans doesn't have any kids, but it is a very personal subject. Not everyone decides to, wants to, or is capable of having children.--Pittsburghmuggle 06:31, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Linnell's wife picture

If anyone wants to add:

Flansy has told me (via Tumblr) that the band understands the "need" to have biographical information on the wiki, but that they feel increasingly uncomfortable with some of the personal stuff. I think posting JL's wife's photograph crosses a line, since she's generally out of the spotlight and not part of the performing arts world like Robin is. What do any of the rest of us think? -- CJSF (talk) 09:25, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

A glance through the general Wikipedia guidelines (WP:BLP) informs us: "Biographies of living persons ("BLP"s) must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy...This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article". I concur with CJSF that not only is it not necessary to have Linnell's wife's photo here, it would probably violate the spirit of wikis in general. It's fine to state the fact that he is married, to whom and for how long, but just like any other decent Wikipedia article, you don't see images of other famous people's spouses unless that spouse is famous himself or herself (i.e., Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith). --MisterMe (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Had no idea the policy was so strict, since the Johns say themselves they want more privacy then let's not add it. I remove the link from talk page also, just in case. --79.53.134.237 12:38, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Find a grave

I do family genealogy (I administrate my family's wiki), and did a check for Linnell's Parents and Flans' father on Find a Grave.com. Nothing listed. I consideredlisting some trivia for the concerts immediately after their parents passed away - but it occurs to me after reading this page that that may just be my brain going into information overdrive. I won't add that.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 06:19, 20 January 2015 (EST)

Interpretation

I have a fan theory (obviously not true) that all of Linnell's songs are descriptions of the Psychiatric patients that his father talked about (without naming names) around the house. Because this encompasses many songs, this seems to be the best place to put it--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 13:17, 15 February 2015 (EST)

Since you call your own theory untrue, I don't know if I should comment at all (though I'm doing it anyway because this is interesting to me), BUT I don't think he'd necessarily have been inspired for any particular song by his father's stories about his own patients when there is so much mental illness in the world from which to take inspiration. Linnell seems to have a big interest in obsessions, delusion, and other unhealthy tendencies, and he kind of seeks them out in stories and stuff. His father definitely might have sparked his interest in the first place though. (My mother kinda set the ball rolling for me to be the type of nerd who would discuss things about band members' personal lives on a wiki.) -- Sonderling (talk) 14:19, 15 February 2015 (EST)

Yep, I only mentioned it because it was an interesting line of thought and figured I'd toss it out there for chewing. I'm not saying "this is it! I have figured out Linnell!" (I'd never say that) but just, as you said, a lot of Linell's songs deal with things his father would probably come across in his daily life.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 15:48, 16 February 2015 (EST)

Delete?

This page is totally unnecessary and, more importantly, invasive. I would like to delete it. I know that everyone who has contributed and speculated has had good intentions, but the band has expressed discomfort with some of the excessive detail that we provide here on TMBW and I think that this is the prime example. It is mainly original research, without confirmation from the band—almost none of it is information that they or other published sources have chosen to share with their fans.

Obviously it is valuable to profile a few of these individuals. For the most part, they have their own pages already. Details follow:

1. Robin Goldwasser - Frequent collaborator, generally a public figure. Already has an article, so this goes without saying.
2. Paxus - I would be fine with shifting the content here to his own page. Not only is he the likely subject of a few songs/quotes from Flans, but he is also pretty open about the details of his life, so it's not a big deal to reproduce that here.
3. Henry Linnell - I actually have mixed feelings about this. I'm not super-opposed to it; he's credited on a few tracks and appears in Gigantic. I guess it's fine to keep for the time being.

Now, to address those whose info would be "lost" if this page were deleted—I think we can reasonably relocate this information elsewhere; I'd be happy to do so before deleting:

1. Earl and Polly Flansburgh's details can easily be relocated to John Flansburgh's biography, with a WP link for Earl. The same goes for General Hospital and Ida Tarbell.
2. All John Linnell's concrete information (I'm skeptical about some of the siblings) can also be merged into his biography.
3. Lincoln could conceivably elaborate slightly on the grandfathers.
4. Band member profiles already contain the relevant info.

I think collecting this information in one place, and in the style it is presented, encourages people to try to "snoop around" for more information, speculate further, and possibly dig up private information that isn't really appropriate or verifiable. Perhaps it's best if we let the band have their private lives, and form their biographies from the information they have shared with us in a concrete way rather than from our own ideas about their childhoods and personal lives. Comments welcome. Apollo (colloquia!) 22:55, 17 February 2015 (EST)

I would love if this page were deleted. You're completely right; it collects info on the band's family members as though it were song trivia and incentivizes poking around in the band's personal lives. There's stuff on this page I really wish would go away. -- Sonderling (talk) 23:25, 17 February 2015 (EST)

I respect the Johns and their privacy, but they are also still public figures - it goes with having a successful band with an over-30-year-history. I suggest we strip it down a bit and then lock the page - people can put suggestions for edits here on the talk page. People in general are going to snoop no matter what - even people who aren't on this wiki. Better we have a page that outlines the info to satiate the simply curious than have nothing and future editors asking "why isn't there a page for this?" and trying to create it anew. --Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 00:22, 18 February 2015 (EST)

i appreciate your thoughts, but i'd like to go on record saying that i don't really support the "people will do it anyway, so why try and stop it?" line of reasoning. Apollo (colloquia!) 00:47, 18 February 2015 (EST)

That's why I didn't say "people will do it anyway, so why try and stop it?" But I think full deletion goes too far. Strip it down,lock it.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 06:54, 18 February 2015 (EST)

The Johns are public figures who have miraculously had their family stay entirely out of the spotlight and away from the mic for the entire span of their long illustrious careers. Most rock musicians have an interview or two with their parents go public, which opens the door for the world to look into them -- not so with the Johns. This makes it much weirder for this wiki to collect info on them; Wikipedia wouldn't allow most of this stuff because it can't be cited, and there is a reason it can't be cited. -- Sonderling (talk) 09:07, 18 February 2015 (EST)

I agree with Apollo. It isn't really necessary, and it's kinda creepy. Being public figures is one thing, but that doesn't mean we have a right to include information that they haven't discussed publicly. I think the fact that they have explicitly said they're uncomfortable outweighs any "curiosity." --Self Called Nowhere (talk) 00:32, 18 February 2015 (EST)

Could you cite an article/interview where the Johns mention discomfort? I'm not disputing, just want to read it, and anyone else weighing this out can, too.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 06:57, 18 February 2015 (EST)

I've actually only heard it secondhand, but it seems a lot of other people have too (Apollo mentions it here too). I think it's possibly not from an actual article but someone conversing with one of them personally. And even if it's not officially on the record I think it's a safe assumption--I know that I would certainly be uncomfortable with such information about my private life on a site that should be about my work and nothing more. --Self Called Nowhere (talk) 17:41, 18 February 2015 (EST)

So it's secondhand. Okay. Just wanted to know if I was missing an article.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 05:47, 19 February 2015 (EST)

I'm all for Apollo's plan of removing the page and redistributing some of the bits of useful information from it to the appropriate people's pages. There does not need to be a separate page discussing the family members of both Johns. -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 08:07, 18 February 2015 (EST)

I agree; this doesn't seem necessary as-is. ~ veggieman 11:41, 18 February 2015 (EST)

I'm cool with redistributing the information, stripping out anything creepy. That's in line with my thoughts above, so it's fine by me.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 05:47, 19 February 2015 (EST)

thanks for the input everyone. i feel bad about taking so long to take any action so i'm going to go ahead and delete the page now as that seems to be the broad consensus. i've taken a copy of the page in order to make sure everything that ought is reallocated, and i'll do that by the end of the week. i'd like to delete this talk page as well for similar reasons, but i might preserve this discussion in my user namespace for posterity. Apollo (colloquia!) 20:07, 26 February 2015 (EST)

Links to page

Found and deep-sixed two links to the page which still linked there - one on Flansy's page and one on the page for the album Lincoln. Two remain - one on a talk page and one on an archive. (Special:WhatLinksHere/Family_Life) I'll leave it up to y'all if I should change those - archives and other people's posts on talk pages feel more hands-off.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 09:46, 24 April 2015 (EDT)