Talk:Shows/1982-07-18

"What and where was your very first public appearance? Was it a success?

Under a different name John and I performed in the summer of 1983 in Central Park for a FSLN rally that a friend of ours was organizing. We figured their would be a diverse audience of lefties. We felt a bit out of place when the actual audience was primarily Spanish speaking, with many people directly from Central America. We performed "Alienation's for the Rich," "Cowtown," and "Space Suit" among other songs I can't recall. Linnell played a clarinet and his Farfisa organ (which was difficult to lug into the park without a car). The crowd was very generous with us, and made us feel appreciated. We didn't perform in public for about six months." -John Flansburgh, here is this a JF inaccuracy? or is this the correct year?

He also says "John and I did our first show as TMBG in January of 1983" just above, so that wouldn't really make sense. I think it's well established that the first show was in 1982. -Apollo (Phoebus!) 03:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Based on this interview, the date of the rally may have been July 19, 1982, the third anniversary of the Sandinista Revolution. (See El Grupo De Rock And Roll for more info.) Is this enough evidence to change the show date? It would at least solve the 1969 problem. --Octoflange 03:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

That does make a lot of sense. I don't know if it's enough information, because it's mostly just implied, and the rally may not have necessarily been the exact day, etc. but I really want to believe that it was the 19th. It couldn't hurt to, for now, point out on the show page itself that it may have taken place on the 19th. At least until there is further closure. -Apollo (Phoebus!) 03:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm stumped. I've dug and dug but can't find any mention of a date. There was "March for Disarmament" on June 12, 1982, which drew 800,000 and the rally may have been associated or happening at the same time - but that doesn't mean the rally was that day.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 05:24, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

They've made it very clear that it was in August, so no, that wouldn't be it. It doesn't sound like a related cause anyway (just guessing by the name). I know Ant has spent a ton of time looking for a date with no luck, so I think it's just lost to the sands of time. --Self Called Nowhere (talk) 05:38, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

I agree. The only hope I could see is that the "Sandinista rally" actually went by a different name than that which may surface sometime in the future.--Pittsburghmuggle (talk) 15:08, 16 April 2015 (EDT)

A Picture?

In the October 21, 2013 newsletter, TMBG put this picture with the following caption: "John L. and John F. perform at a FSLN benefit in Central Park, NYC 1982".

Do you think this might be this show? If so, can we add the picture to the page?

This picture isn't a new discovery--we've had it for quite some time. Yes, this is the show it's from. I guess having it on the page might be ok--we don't have other show pictures on pages, but since this show is so significant to TMBG history I think it's a special case. --Self Called Nowhere (talk) 03:25, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

i'm going to delete your file, because we already have this image. -- 03:31, 22 October 2013 (EDT)

What I think is the date of TMBG's very first show

I'm pretty sure TMBG's very first show happened on August 12th, 1982. --The Mayor of Cowtown (talk) 23:22, 25 March 2021 (EDT)

Source? Evidence? --Self Called Nowhere (talk) 00:43, 26 March 2021 (EDT)

In the newsletter clip from the article it says the anniversary was on that date --⇂⇂↋ suᴉɥsuǝZ ʎɯɯᴉᒋ (talk) 12:03, 20 October 2021 (EDT)

Footnotes

There's a lot of interesting additional history & context surrounding this show that doesn't really fit on the main page. For posterity's sake, I'm dumping it all here.

• Casa Nicaragua was founded in April 1980. A June 1980 article in The Guardian (an NY-based independent left-wing newspaper) described the organization as having been founded 'under the auspices of the Sandinista National Liberation Front to keep the U.S. Nicaraguan community informed on developments at home and to build solidarity work.' The organization was located in a shared workspace called Taller Latinoamericano, at 19 W 21st St. in Manhattan. Parallel organizations existed in Los Angeles and San Fransisco. The headquarters of the LA Casa Nicaragua was firebombed the day before this show.^[1] It was an act of political terrorism by right-wing protesters.^[2] There might have been some underlying tension at this gig as a result, though I doubt the band knew about it.
• The organization held this same anniversary celebration annually, from 1980 (the first anniversary of the revolution) until 1989 (after which the FSLN lost power in Nicaragua). These celebrations were always held on the weekends closest to the anniversary, and they often involved multiple events. Here's a chronological breakdown of the annual celebrations:
  • 1980 - Film screening, Dance at Casa de las Americas, Picnic at Central Park's Great Lawn w/ Gaudencio Thiago de Mello + others^[3]
  • 1981 - Film screening, Dance at Sacred Heart Church, March at Tompkins Square Park^[4]
  • 1982 - Film screening, Dance at Taller Latinamericano, Picnic at Central Park's Great Lawn w/ TMBG
  • 1983 - Rally at Union Square, Dance at Local 1199, Picnic at Central Park's Great Lawn w/ Grupo Pancasán^[5]
  • 1984 - Fete + March at Tompkins Square Park^[6]
  • 1985 - Dance at Taller Latinamericano w/ Johnny Colon^[7]
  • 1986 - Party at Casa de las Americas^[8]
  • 1987 - Conference at Washington Square Methodist Church, Celebration at Local 1199^[9]
  • 1988 - Latin American Video Festival, Party at Local 1199 w/ Son Primero & Charlie Santiago and a Nicaraguan DJ^[10]
  • 1989 - Dance at Local 1199^[11]
• This show can not be described as a Sandinista rally. Flansburgh and Linnell typically refer to it as one, and I'm sure it felt like one to them at the time, but contemporary newspapers clearly describe it as a picnic. Casa Nicaragua did hold Sandinista rallies (which were clearly advertised as such), including one just 2 months before this show. A May 1980 issue of The Guardian included a photo of that rally, with this description: "Some 80 protesters demonstrated against U.S. intervention in Nicaragua May 8 at the Army Recruitment Center in New York City. The action was sponsored by Casa Nicaragua." They also held a rally at Central Park in 1984.^[12]
• The band got the gig via a friend from high school that worked for the New York office of the Liberation News Service. Linnell: "She immediately thought, well there's this coalition that's all celebrating the anniversary of the Sandinista revolution, and they need a band." They were not the only musicians to perform at the show, though they were the only English-speaking act.^[13]
• According to contemporary reports + some weather data websites, it was the single hottest day of the year in New York. Three carriage horses died in NYC that day due to the heat, including one in Central Park. An article on the front page of the next day's New York Times read "New York Heat Climbs to 98, And More of It Is Predicted." This stands in contrast to the band's second show, which took place in the middle of a blizzard.
• It's notable to me that, of the songs on the known setlist, just one is sung by Linnell. And that's Cowtown, a duet. In fact the same thing is true for the (presumed) 1983 setlists; the only songs Linnell sang were duets (Letterbox, Whoredom, Robot, Weep Day). No solos. This raises questions about the band's dynamic in the early years -- was Flansburgh initially considered the lead singer? When did things even out? See also Now That I Have Everything and Sally Boy, early songs that Linnell wrote and gave to Flansburgh to sing.

Regarding the band's name:

• 'Circle Gets The Square' is mentioned in just one article, a January 1987 interview in the Atlanta Journal: "Though they performed once at a Central Park Sandinista rally under the name Circle Gets The Square, the pair adopted their present handle from a 1971 movie featuring George C. Scott, whose addled character thinks he is Sherlock Holmes." It's worth noting that this is one of the very first interviews the band ever did. Whether that gives the claim more credibility or less, I'm not sure.
• 'The Pencils' is also only mentioned in one article -- a 1993 Japanese interview with John Flansburgh. Translated: "At first we were called The Pencils, which sounded like a New Wave band, but in '83 we decided it was time to change our name, and we chose this one because we liked the length of it."
  • Not to speculate, but for me The Pencils seems like the most plausible name. It comes from a direct quote, and it feels sufficiently embarrassing that the band might want to forget about it. Also, in an interview for the 1993 book Rock Names, Flansburgh literally used 'The Pencils' as an example of a bad band name: "This was at the point where bands had just moved from The Pencils to Pencil Pencil, and there were very few bands who had any names more interesting than that. It was in the era of New Wave. It was like 1983, so still, if New Wave wasn't the most vital thing, it was still influential." Burying the lede?
• The Rock Names interview also confirms that the name wasn't 'Dumptruck,' as that came from a list the band put together after this show. Flansburgh: "So we put together this long list of new names, a page of names, but none of them were that great. This long list of names included Dumptruck, and we liked that one okay."
• 'El Grupo de Rock & Roll' was never in contention for the band's name, and they never referred to themselves by it. It's just how they were introduced to a Spanish-speaking crowd this one time.

--Batwho (talk) 11:50, 30 October 2024 (EDT)