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Talk:Science Is Real

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I'm surprised! This is almost a Free-To-Be-You-And-Me level of political messaging.

Wow, and Poppa Disney let them get away with this? I know Flansy's politically left and all, but doesn't this depart from the kid's music formula of the past that worked for them? In particular, he said kids can smell when you are being teachy instead of entertaining, and they hate it.

I'll be fascinated as to how this album goes over.

~Christina Miller, 27August2009

Out of curiosity: what about this song is teachier than, say, Zeroes? From the video and lyrics, I just see a basic, cutesified explanation of that thing in the album title. That's not a big departure from the other albums in this series. It namedrops a few of the different fields and it sums up the scientific method, but it's not exactly drilling Maxwell's equations into the heads of little kids. ~ blitzente (talk) 15:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey, blitzente!
What I meant was - The narrator of "Science is Real" says that, while he likes to hear stories about angels and elves, science is real. The implication is that angels and elves are similar, and that angels and elves are fictional. I'm not arguing whether they are or not here, but it struck me that he is teaching a specific view-point, that this is "propaganda"? In the sense that propaganda is speech designed to persuade and teach at the same time. It's a message, some good-for-you ideas that you should learn because your parents think you should learn it. Like, say, you should be a good citizen by voting and not taking drugs. Zeros are pretty message-neutral, pretty a-political? The song about seven has no message at all, utterly none - it sounds like Daddy Linnell talking about what it feels like to host a kid's birthday party.
I was just surprised that Flans had segued into something message-driven and fraught with politics. They had avoided the model of "Free To Be You And Me" that Flans mentioned as playing in his house when he was a kid, and They just did fun kid songs. Or so he claimed. So I was surprised. ~Christina Miller, 27August2009
Ah, I think that to qualify as propaganda, the song would have to specifically push one political viewpoint in absolute terms. As it is, it just says to me what sounds pretty inoffensive, that angels and elves are not the kind of thing science deals with - and it's not necessarily a political idea, in that neither religion nor science are political by definition. I can understand that someone might find that part of the song a bit teachy, though. Thanks for clearing it up! ~ blitzente (talk) 17:10, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I personally feel that this does qualify as (light) atheist propaganda. Flansy flat out says that evolution and the big bang are real, not like those stories you hear about angels and unicorns. He equates faith-based principles with imaginary creatures. I concur that many of you would believe that angels are imaginary creatures, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion, I just don't think it belongs in my kids music collection. LitMatch 17:27, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
That's a good summary. It's also just too heavy for a song about how Science Is Cool. Whether angels are real has nothing to do with geology or even evolution. It's like it's stuck in there to broadcast the atheist message, not improve the song. The politics of whole boring science-v-religion debate brings a kid's album down, imho. ~Christina Miller, 27 August 2009
Unless the reference to Angels is their use in fantasy, as elves and unicorns are.
Yeah, that's the impression I get from the word "stories". The wording could easily have been different if TMBG wanted to go the deliberately inflammatory route and single out religion specifically. I don't think they're on that level. Besides, it did get past Disney... (Full disclosure: I guess I should add that I'm a big science fangirl and I find this song adorable anyway.) ~ blitzente (talk) 22:51, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
The title of the song says all that needs to be said, Science IS Real. That science deals in the empirical. Until the time that there is objective evidence that angels, pixies, or bigfoot, exists, then the accounts that pertain to them are nothing more than stories. Simple as that! CaptainCaustic - Oct. 15, 2009

HO-kay.... Not to be a d*nk about this, but hasn't this ground already been covered by like, Carl Sagan? I mean I know its popular to be all "GET WITH THE PROGRAM" but I can't help feeling this program was made in the 80's.... on PBS. --WhatTheHeckLinnell 16:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Popularizing science is an on-going tradition on PBS. See the current Dr. Tyson of the groovy mustache, and before him, Alan Alda on Scientific American Frontiers. Yes, Dr. Sagan had his opinions on religion, and he wasn't shy about blabbing them, but he had never made any pretense to just making entertainment; he was all about the propoganda of Science Is Cool. ~Christina Miller, 27August2009
Not to disparage anything Sagan did, but - you'd show episodes of Cosmos to a 7- or 8-year-old? Really? ~ blitzente (talk) 17:10, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
d00d, I'd show episodes of The Butthole Show to a 7 or 8 year old, and that show's pretty danged WE-TAW-DED. Hig hig! --WhatTheHeckLinnell 12:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Of course it's propaganda. But so is Nothing's Gonna Change My Clothes. The differences are 1) Science Is Real is completely artless and 2) it's for kids. The second should not excuse the first. We want to see better sublimation of such issues, in spite of the fact that kids have to 'get it'. Maybe I'm asking too much, but in the past TMBG has done this very well -- has set the bar fairly high. But perhaps the appearance of this song can best be explained as a sign of aging. Cranky old men used to sit around complaining about the world on rocking chairs. In their fifties, the Johns have begun using the TMBG platform like the 'call-in show' Linnel joked about wanting in I Should Be Allowed To Think. --Nehushtan 18:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Hee hee hee. Well, I find I am more likely as I age to hike up my belt and start waving my cane, so it makes sense the urge might strike Them at some point. ~Christina Miller, 30 August 2009