Talk:Say Nice Things About Detroit

Full Band vs The Johns (Bill Krauss argument) is especially true on Flans material

The song has a nice chorus, but the overall arrangement is a kind of welterweight Beatles or perhaps more like early english new wave bands Squeeze or XTC. A problem the lads have had (but particularly Flans) since going to a full band is that it can knock out all of the unorthodoxy that made us like them in the first place. If you listen to the first two albums even today you are constantly surprised at the weird arrangements (which they would then rearrange when they played live!).

With Flans new material I feel he often takes the idea to the band (sans Linnell?) and the finished arrangement often ends up very middle of the road. The band need to consider banning chopped guitar chords on new songs as well. On this song much of the verse (which musically sounds like a retred of the Au Contraire melody) has this Giants on autopilot guitar lick, it's become a cliche for them. When the Johns were a true duo they could be bolder in their arrangements but having the band full time means that they end up having to have these rather conventional arrangements to satisfy the group dynamic. This is far truer for Flans than Linnell. (Linnell has a reverse problem in that too much of his material is essentially solo efforts that seem to have minimal input from anyone. His over reliance on synth effects can make his work lack an organic warmth - something Flans has been able to avoid).

I sense Flans when he writes songs now considers the arrangements and has the song fit in around the band, rather than the other way around. If I were to produce the band (they haven't asked) I'd make them follow the basic rules they had with the first two albums and have them do the songs pretty much together, with guests helping as where needed. Flans could have written a song like this in the late 80s, but the arrangement would have been far more adventurous. (Mr Tuck)

Atonal?

I'm not a music theory expert, but to me this song seems to be off-key or, perhaps, intentionally atonal. We've occasionally heard this before in Flansburgh's work, such as "If I Wasn't Shy", and in both cases I find it rather off-putting. Not to say that a well-constructed tune or solid melody is always the cornerstone of a good song, but it certainly helps the medicine go down, if you know what I mean...but really, what would the Power Spheres have to say? --MisterMe (talk) 08:18, 23 September 2015 (EDT)

Interesting post Mr Me. I'd be interested to hear you or another poster expand on this. (Mr Tuck)

I *am* a music theorist, and neither of these songs are 'atonal'; it's not the word you're looking for. Someone posted the same thing on Mono Puff's 'Pretty Fly' discussion, and it's not true for that one either. -Anonymous Unit B.

Aw come on now, don't leave us hangin', anonymous poster! How would you describe the slightly off-kilter sequence of notes then? It just seems a little melodically wobbly... (now there's a technical term for you, haha) --MisterMe (talk) 13:22, 24 September 2015 (EDT)

Hahaha. I would just say he's using intervals and steps (and even progressions) that are not 100% pleasing to your ear (?!) and, as always for Flans, not always hitting the notes perfectly. But it's still a) pretty straightforward melodically and b) based around a definite tonal center!!! -Anonymous Unit B.

Interesting stuff. Flans, to my ears, can struggle when he tries to go too high as his ambition outweighs his technique. Linnell, has sounded like he strains a bit on some of the recent stuff, but I think that's as much mixing, as he is perhaps too high up. On one recent song (I forget which but I did comment at the time) he sounds out of tune. One of things about them live is that although I prefer Linnell, there have been shows where I think he goes through the motions. Listen to the live Aussie album, and I think he sounds bored and he slurs a bit. If he never sings Birdhouse again I think it will be a relief! The version of We want a rock (one of my favourite songs) is so lazily sung that its unlistenable. Contrast that with the sublime live version of Rhythm Section Want Ad when he can actually be bothered. Flans, always sounds more committed when he sings live. Even when it's Planet of the Apes... :-) (Mr Tuck)

I Haven't Seen You in Forever - some of JL's pitch problems (which are minimal) are noticeable because it's a cappella, more or less. He's got the stronger live voice of the two. I love how Flansy live is always off-mic - he runs around and sometimes doesn't make it in time. He also happens to miss the key often the first line of each song - JL pretty much has perfect pitch. I loved your description of recent JL work as slightly autistic emotionally, you summed it up perfectly.

When Flans nails the high notes, it's unmatched in its emotional power - I'm thinking Pet Name and Music Jail Pt 2 specifically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deysian (talk • contribs) 09:21, September 25, 2015