Talk:Shows/1983-02-13

Okay, so, I know Flans messes things like this up all the time, but the spoken intro to Pittsburgh/Mr Small's Theatre at the recent venue songs shows says that TMBG are haunted by memories of 1987, not 1983. Make of that what you will. — aliste

Well, we know that Linnell was 23 for the "23" show, so unless the Electric Banana show referred to in the Pittsburgh song is a different show that was attended by 23 people, Flansy must have meant '83. -TDK

Sure, like I said, Flans has sometimes given unreliable statements, so I don't always trust everything he says. The discrepancies amuse me. But They definitely did play a show with a crappy turnout at the Electric Banana in 1987, according to this article by Jamie Kitman. Just out of curiosity, what is your source for this info? I'd actually never heard of this legendary show until you added it here. — aliste

I'm not sure where I first heard about it, but it's mentioned in the TMBG Early Years Handbook which has been on the net forever and was written by Mike W, a well-known TMBG fan. See section 1.1c, though it makes it sound like the "23" show was the same show as their first, in Central Park.

You know what, after typing in all those '85-'86 dates I realize that there's no way that They were way out in Pittsburgh in 1983. Furthermore, I seem to now remember hearing it was in NYC, which is probably a foregone conclusion anyway. --TDK

Date/location?

So I think between the blurb from the info club newsletter ("This is the poster for our third show. It was our return engagement with Dr. B's, where we debuted as They Might Be Giants.") and Flans's recent tweet on twitter, we can place the venue for this show as Dr. B's. Flans said the show was on February 23rd on Twitter though, so does anybody have any other evidence as to the month this show was held in? -J-Gatz

Agreed with Dr. B's - but regarding the tweet, I'm wondering where we originally got January from. I'd check that before changing it over. -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 08:48, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

EDIT: I asked Flans on Twitter, here's the exchange. -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 10:26, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

@tmbg Are you certain it was Feb 23, 1983? We have a JL quote: "It was January 23rd. We played 23 songs.. there were 23 people at that show"^[1]

Flans:

@MovingToTheSun oh it could have been Jan. easily. I just remember it was the 23rd because of exactly the synchronicity JL mentioned...^[2]

@MovingToTheSun Crazy snow storm. And we were paid via coupon (like a showcase deal) so the audience # was kind of burned into out memories.^[3]

Good ol' Flans. That...doesn't really help much. (Unless somebody wants to look up what the weather was like in NYC on January 23 and February 23 of 1983...) -J-Gatz 12:41, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

It seems it snowed on both days: January Febuary, however it snowed a bit more and was a bit colder in January.--Oldpinebox 12:55, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

According to those links, it actually snowed more in January, but 0.3" and 0.2" are totally inconclusive. Oh, well! It was a nice try. :] -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 13:07, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Setlist

Could somebody put the setlist here? I'm dying to know what songs were played at the show. Also, today is the anniversary of this show! Ms. Xcitement 09:26, 23 January 2023 (EST)

If somebody had it, it would be here! -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 09:50, 23 January 2023 (EST)

Date talk redux; the plot thickens

TMBG posted to socials tonight that Feb 23 this week will be the 40th anniversary of their first show. Looking back, JF has mentioned the Feb 23 date online before (like this 2012 tweet), though their Twitter account's "birthday" is set to Jan 23.

Most of this page's info around Jan 23 is attributed to the fan-made Early Years FAQ from the early '90s, which states (without a citation):

Another rumor (perpetuated by Linnell) goes as such: 'It was January 23rd. We played 23 songs, although we had only planned to do 22. There were 23 people at that show. We each made 23 dollars. I was 23 at the time.'

I asked Flans on Facebook tonight about the discrepancy, and here's what he had to say in three replies over 15 minutes:

Maybe we got it wrong.... I think this is all down to JLs notebook. But the snow fall must be a matter of record. I am prepared to delete these posts... but we already missed it if we're wrong!

Seems like the MONSTER snowstorm was Feb 11 1983, but it went over a weekend, and I am almost certain our first show was on a weekday--we hadn't graduated to a coveted weekend spot yet. But it might have been a second storm... still googling about...

I'm thinking we did play Feb 23 because 1.) it was a Wednesday which is commensurate with our lowly position on Dr. Bs schedule, and 2.) it had been snowing continuously for a solid week previously (kicking off with 22" on the 12th, and slowly winding down to 5" on the 18th. There were feet of snow on the ground--not snowing I know--but still a crazy weather situation to work around. The month before seemed to have no snow fall in the second half of the month, and while I don't remember much, it do remember a LOT of snow, very few people and a very exciting show!

Flans is right that the monster snowstorm hit mostly from Feb 10-12. According to public records, there was basically no snowfall on Jan 23 or Feb 23 - but the liner notes in Then even mention the show happening during a bad snowstorm (and that only 23 friends came out). We do know that the show took place at Dr. B's, and we know this was the first show they headlined as They Might Be Giants (about six months after the Central Park show, according to Then).

Shortly after getting those replies from Flans on FB tonight, I noticed that the TMBG-made flyer in Gigantic (appearing around 13:30) has a Dr. B's date in February 1983 - but it's February 13, which puts it right up against the snowstorm and right in line with Flans's memories. Maybe it's possible the "legendary 23 show" actually happened on 2/13, not 1/23 or 2/23? Either way, January is looking less and less likely. Anyone have thoughts before we consider moving the page? -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 23:47, 21 February 2023 (EST)

generally i am more liable to trust earlier sources — and also jl's recall over jf (sorry flans). with that said, i agree that february definitely seems likelier, although it doesn't sit quite right with me that it's not on the 23rd. perhaps it was too good to be true. -- 00:17, 22 February 2023 (EST)

I feel similarly about trusting earlier sources, which is why I'm now leaning Feb 13. The flyer with the "2/13" date was clearly made by TMBG themselves in 1983, the Then booklet mentions the snowstorm (which was that weekend), and the JL quote beginning "It was January 23rd" has always been unsourced on the Early Years FAQ - though I'd love to see where it came from if anyone remembers! -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 00:20, 22 February 2023 (EST)

Update: Upon seeing the 1983 flyer and comparing the date to the blizzard records, we've updated TMBW per Flansburgh on Facebook and Tumblr: -CapitalQ ♫ talk ♪ 00:25, 23 February 2023 (EST)

This [weather] chart plus the list of gigs from our very early press release makes me think the 2/13 date (day two of that totally epic snowstorm) has to be the date. Mr. Uleis--correct the official TMBW records!

I think this pretty much nails it down, and I salute you for your dilligance. (This press release was one of the very fist press things we ever did and the dutiful listing of all our gigs seems like a semi-desperate move to prove we actually exist as a band!) But the Feb 13 date brings the show right up to the days right after-or really the third day of the mega-snow-storm which was definitely the main topic of the night-which does line up with the snowfall records.
I think we should adjust the history books, which is to say the TMBW entry, and amend the legendary story. I wish it happened LATER rather than earlier, so we could keep on talking about our 40th anniversary, but maybe it doesn’t matter!