1997-06 Internet Underground
On the 'net with They Might Be Giants' John Linnell
By Steve Knopper, Internet Underground Magazine, June, 1997
They might be, they could be, they are... one of the Internet's most popular bands
Halfway through "Pencil Rain," a typically goofy They Might Be Giants song from 1988, quiet tones beep regimentally underneath the electric guitar and drums. The sounds are difficult to notice, let alone decipher, even if you're a dehard They Might Be Giants fan, but — surprise! — a half-dozen people on the Internet figured out that the beeps were in fact Morse code. Translated, the code, of course, is a line from the old Spanish folk song "Cielito Lindo." How could anyone have missed that? Trivial recorded moments like these make They Might Be Giants, a 15-year-old New York city rock'n'roll duo named for a 1971 George C. Scott film, the perfect band for Netheads. It's almost as fun debating the palindrome in "I Palindrome I" online as it is remembering which Simpsons episode had the Human Fly climbing up a wall. Nerds from all around the world flock to the 20-plus TMBG web sites, or the newsgroup alt.music.tmbg, to discuss why a blue canary would filibuster or debate why Triangle Man is so filled with hate.
The voices most glaringly absent from these debates are those of John Linnell and John Flansburgh. The two head Giants are no Luddites. They're aware of the overwhelming trove of virtual band information, and they occasionally surf the web. Still, they stay calmly above the fray.
The two original Giants (commonly known as the Johns), best known for the nerdy college-radio hits "Don't Let's Start" and "Birdhouse In Your Soul," have written and contributed extensively to the official They Might Be Giants page (www.tmbg.com) — a site that fits the band's quirky personality. Among the delights lurking behind the opening page site map of a spit roasting various items over an open fire are: obscure facts like the band's favorite hockey team ("The Bruins. Shoot score Bobby Orr!"); the origins of Dial-A-Song, an answering machine that plays new or unreleased material for fans; music and tour news video and song clips; and even an extensive catalog of t-shirts, mouse pads and yes, John Henry blend gourmet coffee.
The Johns have always been fascinated with technology, from the title of 1992's Apollo 18 to the band's early experiments with drum machines and bouncy synthesizer effects, Linnell, though, says he'd rather lie on a rug with an encyclopedia than sit in an office chair staring at a screen. "I don't surf the web anymore," says the singer-saxophonist-keyboardist-songwriter, during a phone interview from a Richmond, KY., hotel room, where he was relaxing before a tax- day show at Eastern Kentucky University. But even though he's not surfing anymore, he's glad to share his thoughts about the legions of TMBG fans online, AltaVista and his old Britannica.
Internet Underground: There's a huge, incredibly detailed FAQ (reality.sgi.com/relph/music/tmbg-faq.html) on one of the unofficial They Might Be Giants home pages — it has a thorough biography of turn-of-the-century journalist William Allen White, whose face appears on one of your CD single covers, and an explanation of the palindrome in "I Palindrome I." have you ever read it? How weird is it that the Internet lets so many people from around the world discuss your lyrical references?
John Linnell: I think that's fine. I think it's probably helping us in some way keep our whole thing afloat, keep people interested — and it's a great way for information about shows and stuff to get distributed. We sort of see it as another outlet, along the lines of Dial-A-Song, for us to get our scene out there.
I'm not so interested in the fantasy of interactive media. It doesn't light my fire all that much. For what we do, I prefer it to be a controlled thing where we're creating something and then presenting it. It's not so critical to me that people are able to fiddle around with what we're doing. I guess I don't really see that as the way we want to work. There's a lot of excitement and hype about interactive stuff but that's not really where I'm at.
IU: How come?
JL: My main argument against it is I just haven't seen that much interesting work done using computers interactively. We've had a couple thousand years of culture where that wasn't happening — and that turned out a pretty good body of work. That's not to say it won't happen, but I guess I'm kind of old-fashioned. And I'm kind of old, at this point.
There needs to be somebody else to demonstrate that it can be an interesting art form. I guess John (Flansburgh) and I are real control freaks. I know there's this Peter Gabriel CD-ROM where you can mix one of his songs yourself. Well, in a way, the whole point of mixing is to demonstrate the way you want it to be mixed. It's not an improvement to give it to other people to mix.
But, you know, whatever. I'm just a grumpy old man.
IU: Do you use the Web much? Do you go out and use e-mail and surf?
JL: I have a PPP connection that I can get to from the road. But it's mainly good for just finding out specific information that I want to know. I've doodled around on the web and it can be a real time-waster, but I like AltaVista and things like that for getting information. It's a great way of finding out something when you don't have an encyclopedia handy.
IU: Do you read the They Might Be Giants mailing lists or newsgroups or think about what your fans are typing about you?
JL: I've seen it. I try not to look at it because I think that it's not really a fair critique of what we're doing. I feel like I'm better off not paying too much attention. I like the fact that people are talking to each other about our shows, though. I think that's good.
IU: What about the way the Internet can be used to connect with fans — which you can't do when they're just shouting out questions after a concert?
JL: I guess it's not something I wanted to do before there was an Internet. I never really felt like I needed to make friends with fan. I think we have a pretty good relationship with our audience as it is and occasionally we meet people we like. But we're not trying to meet fans. We're not actively looking to go out into our audience.
Maybe it's even better to make friends with people who aren't fans of ours. I'm generally on a more even keel with somebody who isn't somebody who wants my autograph. I feel like that's a weird relationship to start off with. I deeply appreciate that we have fans and that they're supportive of what we're doing, but I like meeting people on a level footing. I have a lot of friends in New York — people I've known for a long time and I feel like those are valuable friendships, I think it's very difficult to make meaningful, lasting friendships among people who are kind of fanatics.
IU: I'm getting the sense that you don't deal up AOL very often and go into the chat rooms and try to meet people.
JL: No, no. I'm not into that. Besides, I'm married. I have a social life that's, like, pretty much all I can handle at the moment.
IU: Your biography sheet refers to a bike accident that you had in the early '80s. You couldn't perform, so you and John invented Dial-A- Song, where people could call an answering machine to hear new songs. If the Internet had actually been more widespread, would you have wound up using that instead?
JL: I broke my wrist on my bike, so the Internet would have been pretty useless, I couldn't use my hand.
The problem was we couldn't perform and we couldn't even really record. The other thing was we had some gear stolen around the same time.
So it was kind of like this point where we had to stop doing shows, and Flansburgh had the idea of Dial-A-Song awhile back and we felt like this was the time to start checking it out — seeing whether we'd get in trouble.
I think the Internet could serve the same function under different circumstances. I kind of like the idea of working at home and being able to broadcast from my home. It remains to be seen — I know it's still this growing thing. I guess I still have this feeling that people should get out of their houses and breathe some fresh air. Not that you would do that at a nightclub.
IU: When you and John sit down to write songs, how do you come up with the ideas? Is it a brainstorming session, or do you write things down on notebooks and show them to each other?
JL: There are often times when one of us will have an idea, like when we're out somewhere — I have paperback books kicking around my house that have stuff written in the margins, just because that was the only thing to write on. Both of us have little home setups with recording gear and stuff. My thing is I often wake up in the morning, get in the shower and I suddenly have this thing in my head. If I'm lucky, there's the opportunity to work on that throughout the day, but sometimes it really is just necessary to scribble it down and try to figure out what the hell I was thinking later on.
IU: You've used lots of different technological ideas as inspiration, like space. Do you ever think about the Internet for ideas?
JL: No. It's never seemed inspiring, particularly.
IU: When you started performing with a band on the road, what was the transition like? How difficult was it to adapt?
JL: I don't think we really knew what we were getting into, exactly. We've been touring this way for so long now it just seems normal. We have grown accustomed to waking up in a different hotel room every day. I don't think it's healthy, but we pretty much know what it's like and we can sustain our selves. It doesn't get easier as we get older. It got easier in the first few years of it, because when we started we were not getting enough money performing — we were staying in the occasional Super 8 motel but we were also crashing on people's couches and stuff and that got pretty difficult.
IU: Do you think about marketing and promotion over the Internet? And, more broadly, do you think significant changes, like making traditional radio stations or record stores obsolete?
JL: I think that, yeah, things are definitely going to change. I can't predict how exactly. Before the Internet can be a real mass-market thing, there's still this barrier for people. It's still a little bit difficult to access stuff on the Internet for people who are used to watching TV. I think what will end up happening is people's TVs will get integrated with that, once it gets really simple — I mean, really simple, like to the point where the technology's invisible — then you could market stuff effectively and have people buying movies and records on their TVs. But who knows how it's going to work out? It has to be a lot simpler. I can get out on the Web, but I don't think my mom is particularly interested. I just don't think it's something she wants to do.
IU: What are your favorite sites on the web?
JL: Oh, our own, of course. I like AltaVista, because it's a great way to get information quickly. I guess AltaVista is my favorite place.
IU: Have you ever come across a great site on the web where you thought, "I can't believe someone wasted time doing this?"
JL: Right. And then I realize it's me. I'm the one wasting time.
IU: How often a week then would you say you surf the web?
JL: I don't surf the web any more. At this point on the road I'm mostly traveling and performing and sleeping. But if I do need to find out something that's where I'll go — for example, I was trying to figure out where this comet was last week and I tried to find out through the Internet. And it was sort of somewhat helpful. It came up with a picture of the comet with a grid in the sky that shows where it's supposed to be.
But as it turned out, later that week, I looked up and could just see it very plainly.
IU: I guess that's a telling comment about the Internet.
JL: Well, not necessarily. It's kind of a good place to get information, but sometimes it's kind of work, you know.
I have a really good encyclopedia at home, it's an old Britannica. And it's really fun to sit around and read. It doesn't hurt your eyes, you can just lie on the rug and read it and just flip around and the articles are really well-written and interesting. And it's a great source of information. I think that's the problem with the web — it doesn't give me that much pleasure.